On Catholicism and Fascism.
I think that it's funny that so many people associate Catholicism and Fascism in a way that demonstrates complete isolation from reality. If you want a working example, just check out Jack Chick's tracts. You can take a look at his understanding of the Holocaust. Needless to say that these kinds of accusations are baseless and ridiculous, and prey upon people's ignorance. Weird conspiracy theories surrounding the Church are in vogue today with books like the De Vinci Code and such, but most people know better than to take more than a tongue in cheek perspective on it all. However, there are a few...
This is a brief conversation I had recently on the YouTube:
Random crazy dude:
Myself:
Crazy Dude again:
To be fair, I didn't really give him much of an argument. With the character limit and tiny print, it would seem that YouTube is designed to encourage unintelligent conversation. You could be a genius, but you'll sound like an idiot on YouTube.
HOWEVER, I couldn't just let this stand. It's too stupid, and stupidity is contagious. Especially on YouTube. So I'm going to go through each of his points and refute them one at a time:
Annoying is his claim that the Supreme Court is controlled by the Catholic Church. Ignoring the fact having Catholics on the court doesn't make it 'Controlled by the Church', (if it was mostly Jewish, would the court be 'controlled by the Zionists?'): Just because people claim they are Catholic doesn't make it so. In fact many so-called Catholics today are polluting the ground that they walk with with their absolute denial of Catholic social teaching. For example, take Chief Justice Roberts, who openly supports Roe vs. Wade and abortion rights despite longstanding condemnation by the Church: CA, Humanae Vitae, and even the document itself.
Then again, Roberts is a minor case. Justice Kennedy supports both abortion and gay rights, which, of course, are also against the teachings of the Church: ToB.
Clearly neither of these people are very strong Catholics if they can't seem to support basic Catholic social teachings. The Church has explicitly demanded an end to Abortion, Contraception, and Homosexuality, and places where Catholics are the majority seem to have movements that support this; take the Philippines for instance. But not in America. She seems to lack control over here. I'll ask you a simple question: How can an entity that is unable to do something as simple as get rid of abortion, something that a thin majority of American's actually want, be said to be secretly in control? I'll do you a favor and answer the questions: It can't.
I could go on all day about that but it's not even the weirdest claim. The notion that "many" leaders of the world being Catholic proves that their is some conspiracy is definitely weirder. There are a lot of Protestent Rulers as well, also secularists, Muslims, Buddhists, and many others. Are there secret undergrounds for these as well? I doubt it. It's not like he even sites interesting examples: King Abdullah of Jordan and Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo of the Philippines, like they have so much power or influence. The Jesuits may as well declare themselves in charge of Djibouti; it would do them as much good. More so actually, Jordan is the least powerful nation in the entire Middle East save Lebanon (which is by far more 'Catholic,' btw.) The reason he chose these countries, of course is that traditionally Catholics countries like Spain and Austria are no longer the shining examples of 'theocracy' they once were. The traditional powerhouses of the Church are now as secular as the rest of Europe which says something about the effectiveness of this Jesuit underground.
And there's the implication that Bill Clinton's time at Georgetown makes him 'Jesuit Trained,' (whatever that means,) completely ignoring the fact that Georgetown is the quintessential example of a once good Catholic university turned bad and anti-Catholic: check and check.
Seriously, the claim is goofy.
But the worst, of course, is the link to Fascism:
"Why do you think torture is allowed?" - Well it's not because the Pope approves of it.
"or the patriot act in effect which is very similar to hitler's enabling act?" - It probably has something to due with precedent. (Note the assumption that Catholicism had something to due with Hitler. Its funny considering that he forced a Concordat on the Church to prevent priests from being sent to gas chambers...)
"you're out of your mind." - This might be true... but its not because of my opinions of the Church.
"Fascism and catholicism go hand in hand. always has." - And that's it. Such a strange assertion considering Giovanni Gentile and Mussolini both explicitly rejected the role and the Church in public affairs and were both excommunicated. It's also odd considering that while the Church is a 2000 year old institution, Fascism was a short lived political fad of the 1920s and 30s that sought to supplant classical liberalism. It's also odd considering that the Hegelian philosophy of the Fascists explicitly contradicted several Church teachings by identifying the end of man with the state.
The fellow seems to think that because he was "raised Catholic," that it makes him knowledgeable about the faith, but I can assure you, thousands of 'Catholics' are raised every generation who know nothing about the faith. By nothing, I mean that they don't even know what the Eucharist is and they think that celibacy is a 'Sacrament.' So, his claims are pretty baseless.
Besides the whole concept of a global conspiracy is pretty cool. If I even had a hint of this thing I would be on board right away. I mean seriously.
But enough of this. Arguing with someone on the Internet is a waste of time. As Randall Munroe would put it:
This is a brief conversation I had recently on the YouTube:
Random crazy dude:
It doesn't matter if you went to these places. The fact of the matter is they jesuits have trained all of our top military officers, lawyers, judges and many rulers around the world. Like the king of Jordan, the president of the Philippines, Clinton was Jesuit trained and many CIA. that's just to name a few. You're either very dumb or you're purposely being deceptive.
Myself:
Bullshit. If you knew the first thing about Catholic or Jesuit ideology you would realize how stupid this is. The Supreme Court Justices, for the most part, are about as 'Catholic' as Voltaire.
Crazy Dude again:
I was raised Catholic. Beside that, the Justices are extremely catholic. Do a LITTLE research before you go around trying to say what's what. Why do you think torture is allowed? or the patriot act in effect which is very similar to hitler's enabling act? you're out of your mind. Fascism and catholicism go hand in hand. always has.
To be fair, I didn't really give him much of an argument. With the character limit and tiny print, it would seem that YouTube is designed to encourage unintelligent conversation. You could be a genius, but you'll sound like an idiot on YouTube.
HOWEVER, I couldn't just let this stand. It's too stupid, and stupidity is contagious. Especially on YouTube. So I'm going to go through each of his points and refute them one at a time:
Annoying is his claim that the Supreme Court is controlled by the Catholic Church. Ignoring the fact having Catholics on the court doesn't make it 'Controlled by the Church', (if it was mostly Jewish, would the court be 'controlled by the Zionists?'): Just because people claim they are Catholic doesn't make it so. In fact many so-called Catholics today are polluting the ground that they walk with with their absolute denial of Catholic social teaching. For example, take Chief Justice Roberts, who openly supports Roe vs. Wade and abortion rights despite longstanding condemnation by the Church: CA, Humanae Vitae, and even the document itself.
Then again, Roberts is a minor case. Justice Kennedy supports both abortion and gay rights, which, of course, are also against the teachings of the Church: ToB.
Clearly neither of these people are very strong Catholics if they can't seem to support basic Catholic social teachings. The Church has explicitly demanded an end to Abortion, Contraception, and Homosexuality, and places where Catholics are the majority seem to have movements that support this; take the Philippines for instance. But not in America. She seems to lack control over here. I'll ask you a simple question: How can an entity that is unable to do something as simple as get rid of abortion, something that a thin majority of American's actually want, be said to be secretly in control? I'll do you a favor and answer the questions: It can't.
I could go on all day about that but it's not even the weirdest claim. The notion that "many" leaders of the world being Catholic proves that their is some conspiracy is definitely weirder. There are a lot of Protestent Rulers as well, also secularists, Muslims, Buddhists, and many others. Are there secret undergrounds for these as well? I doubt it. It's not like he even sites interesting examples: King Abdullah of Jordan and Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo of the Philippines, like they have so much power or influence. The Jesuits may as well declare themselves in charge of Djibouti; it would do them as much good. More so actually, Jordan is the least powerful nation in the entire Middle East save Lebanon (which is by far more 'Catholic,' btw.) The reason he chose these countries, of course is that traditionally Catholics countries like Spain and Austria are no longer the shining examples of 'theocracy' they once were. The traditional powerhouses of the Church are now as secular as the rest of Europe which says something about the effectiveness of this Jesuit underground.
And there's the implication that Bill Clinton's time at Georgetown makes him 'Jesuit Trained,' (whatever that means,) completely ignoring the fact that Georgetown is the quintessential example of a once good Catholic university turned bad and anti-Catholic: check and check.
Seriously, the claim is goofy.
But the worst, of course, is the link to Fascism:
"Why do you think torture is allowed?" - Well it's not because the Pope approves of it.
"or the patriot act in effect which is very similar to hitler's enabling act?" - It probably has something to due with precedent. (Note the assumption that Catholicism had something to due with Hitler. Its funny considering that he forced a Concordat on the Church to prevent priests from being sent to gas chambers...)
"you're out of your mind." - This might be true... but its not because of my opinions of the Church.
"Fascism and catholicism go hand in hand. always has." - And that's it. Such a strange assertion considering Giovanni Gentile and Mussolini both explicitly rejected the role and the Church in public affairs and were both excommunicated. It's also odd considering that while the Church is a 2000 year old institution, Fascism was a short lived political fad of the 1920s and 30s that sought to supplant classical liberalism. It's also odd considering that the Hegelian philosophy of the Fascists explicitly contradicted several Church teachings by identifying the end of man with the state.
The fellow seems to think that because he was "raised Catholic," that it makes him knowledgeable about the faith, but I can assure you, thousands of 'Catholics' are raised every generation who know nothing about the faith. By nothing, I mean that they don't even know what the Eucharist is and they think that celibacy is a 'Sacrament.' So, his claims are pretty baseless.
Besides the whole concept of a global conspiracy is pretty cool. If I even had a hint of this thing I would be on board right away. I mean seriously.
But enough of this. Arguing with someone on the Internet is a waste of time. As Randall Munroe would put it:
Labels: Catholicism, comspiracy, Fascism, Jesuits
posted by Andrew Stine at 2:01 PM
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